Transcript of the conversation between Elon Musk and Alice Weidel

On Thursday, January 9, 2025, 9:00 a.m., Elon Musk, platform owner of "X", and Alice Weidel, co-chair of the AfD parliamentary group and designated candidate for chancellor, met for a public discussion on the "X" platform. 

Here you can read an edited transcript of the conversation, which has been edited for word repetitions, word-finding efforts and better readability. The content is unchanged. You can find the original interview in the media library. 

Edited, proofread conversation between Alice Weidel (AfD) and Elon Musk

—

**Elon Musk:**  
Welcome, Alice. Thank you very much for taking the time. I'm looking forward to this conversation. Perhaps we can start by you briefly explaining what the AfD stands for. What key issues are important to you, where do you see a need for change in Germany? Many people, especially in the USA, have never heard of the AfD. That would be very helpful.

—

**Alice Weidel:**  
Thank you, Elon, for inviting me and giving me the opportunity to speak publicly about various topics. Can you hear me?

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**Elon Musk:**  
Yes, I hear you.

—

**Alice Weidel:**  
Perfect. So, briefly about us: the AfD is the "Alternative for Germany". It's still relatively new, about eleven years old, formed during the euro crisis. I have to say, we have a lot of negative developments in Germany. Our country is great, people are very motivated, but there have been a lot of wrong decisions in the last 20 or 25 years. We had 16 years of Angela Merkel and then the so-called "traffic light" coalition that took office last year.

Now elections are coming up again. In my opinion, Angela Merkel was the first "green" chancellor. She fundamentally damaged the country, for example by opening the borders to illegal migration in 2015 and pursuing a misguided energy policy. Germany is the only industrialized country to have abandoned nuclear energy. Angela Merkel wanted to focus everything on solar and wind energy. The problem is: In an industrialized country, it's not enough to use only wind and solar energy because we don't have an adequate power supply when the sun isn't shining and the wind isn't blowing.

—

**Elon Musk:**  
I am a big fan of solar energy, but in a country at a relatively high latitude, there is significantly less solar energy available in winter. There are big day-night and summer-winter fluctuations. You can do a lot with solar storage and batteries, but it always needs to be supplemented by other forms of energy. I also find it tragic that Germany is shutting down its nuclear power plants, even though they are very efficient. In my opinion, the number of nuclear power plants in Germany should actually be increased.

—

**Alice Weidel:**  
Yes, absolutely. That is also our position. We are calling for a change of course in energy policy. You can't supply a country like Germany, which has a strong industry, with wind and solar alone. Our production peaked back in 2018 and has been declining since then due to high energy costs. We say we need to be technologically open and invest in nuclear power again, which is CO₂-free. This would also drastically reduce our carbon footprint. That's the great irony: Merkel and the traffic light government are supposedly pursuing a "green policy" that doesn't actually work, while we want to be technologically open again.

—

**Elon Musk:**  
That makes sense. In my opinion, Germany should not only recommission the existing nuclear power plants, but also modernize and expand them. Many people don't even realize how small the actual reactor core is compared to the entire plant. You can significantly increase the output within the same area without needing more land. I believe that the sensible solution is a mix of renewable energies, a lot of nuclear power and a certain amount of fossil fuels.

—

**Alice Weidel:**  
That's right. For example, to replace a nuclear power plant that produces ten billion kilowatt hours a year with wind, you would need around 1,250 large wind turbines, each of which would generate eight million kilowatt hours a year. And because of the minimum distances, you would need around 100 square kilometers. That would correspond to about half the area of Stuttgart. This calculation is not complicated, but our energy policy ignores such simple facts.  

—

**Elon Musk:**  
Exactly. You don't have to be a physics genius to understand that the area balance doesn't work out.  

—

**Alice Weidel:**  
Then there was the gas crisis caused by the war in Ukraine, which exposed our dependence on Russian gas. And what did the government do when energy prices went through the roof? It shut down the last nuclear power plants. You can only say: either they are extremely stupid or they are willfully destroying their own country.

—

**Elon Musk:**  
I rather suspect stupidity. There's this saying: "You shouldn't impute malice to something that can also explain stupidity." It was one of the craziest decisions ever to shut down power plants in the middle of an energy crisis - and CO₂-free nuclear energy at that.

—

**Alice Weidel:**  
That's exactly right. So we have two main points: a sensible energy policy and a sensible migration policy. But it's actually about more than that. We as the AfD are a conservative-liberal party. The media likes to portray us as extremist, but that's not true. We stand for reducing bureaucracy and easing the burden on companies and citizens. Do you know how long it takes to get a business license in Germany?

—

**Elon Musk:**  
Yes, I can imagine that. We built the Tesla factory near Berlin and had a lot of bureaucratic hurdles. We still had a lot of support from the authorities. Nevertheless, we had to submit tons of paperwork. I think it was 25,000 pages, all printed on paper. We initially thought about submitting electronically, but that was impossible.

—

**Alice Weidel:**  
Exactly, that's crazy. A whole truck full of paper, and every page has to be stamped. Nobody is being deliberately harassing here, but that's the way the rules are. We have to change these rules. Otherwise we'll end up in a situation where almost everything is forbidden.  

—

**Elon Musk:**  
Absolutely. And then there is the high tax burden. Germany has the highest taxes in the OECD. This means that the average employee works for more than half a year just for the state. Despite this, the state is failing in its core tasks such as internal security and education. Our education system is, as you say, influenced by this radical agenda in which gender issues seem more important than arithmetic or writing.

—

**Alice Weidel:**  
Germany used to have a good school system. But now you can see from the Pisa studies that our pupils are slipping in math and even in German. Look, in some federal states there are no longer even compulsory spelling tests. This whole left-wing ideological reconstruction is ruining everything. Many young people are turning to the AfD because they want a solid education and real achievement.

—

**Elon Musk:**  
The purpose of school is to acquire important skills and learn how the world works. Otherwise it's pure propaganda.  

—

**Alice Weidel:**  
Exactly. Incidentally, we also see this failure in the area of asylum and migration. Since 2015, we have had an official influx of almost seven million people. However, many migrants throw away their passports before they arrive here. Almost 60 percent arrive without papers. And because they have no documents, they cannot be deported. This is absurd - but it is official policy.

—

**Elon Musk:**  
Yes, it's like in the USA. Anyone who throws away their papers is effectively "undocumented", which ironically has more advantages. Then you don't know whether they are criminals or murderers. In addition, some US states pay generous welfare benefits. We are experiencing a massive increase in crime.  

—

**Alice Weidel:**  
I have heard that in California, for example, theft is sometimes no longer prosecuted because it happens too often. Is that true?

—

**Elon Musk:**  
Yes, that's largely true. Perhaps 1 percent of thefts are prosecuted. And if someone does get arrested, they are quickly released. In the meantime, California even had a law that made shoplifting of less than 1000 dollars virtually unpunishable. In addition, George Soros has recognized how effective it is to control law enforcement. You don't have to change the laws, you just have to change the prosecutors who no longer enforce the laws.

—

**Alice Weidel:**  
Exactly. And when the population no longer goes along with this, they look for alternatives. That also explains Donald Trump's victory back then. People wanted change. I think we have the same effect here in Germany. If you are dissatisfied, you have to choose something new. That's exactly why I urge people to vote for the AfD. As you say, only the AfD can still save Germany.

—

**Elon Musk:**  
Yes, we have to show the establishment that we no longer want to accept this policy. I hope that people in Germany will realize that they have a real alternative.  

—

**Alice Weidel:**  
That's right. We are the only opposition to the "unity parties", which all end up doing the same thing. Angela Merkel was - as you say - green, and now we have the traffic light, which continues that. Friedrich Merz from the CDU recently described your interference, Elon, as "overbearing and presumptuous". At the same time, it was no problem when Bill Gates exerted political influence here or promoted his vaccines. Soros also has enormous influence, but is hardly criticized in the media.  

—

**Elon Musk:**  
Well, that's how it works. Donald Trump was also constantly maligned in the German media. I thought it was terrible to see how he and his family were treated. I was really ashamed of them.  

—

**Alice Weidel:**  
Yes, and now EU bureaucrats are probably watching our entertainment in the context of the new Digital Services Act. This law is basically about censorship. Yet freedom of speech is the foundation of democracy. If people are not allowed to speak freely, democracy is impossible.  

—

**Elon Musk:**  
Precisely. Without free access to information, people cannot make informed choices. If propaganda overshadows everything instead, there is no longer any real democracy. Anyone who wants to curtail freedom of expression is always on the bad side.

—

**Alice Weidel:**  
What was the first thing Hitler did? He suppressed freedom of expression and brought the media into line. Without this control, he would never have become so powerful.

—

**Elon Musk:**  
That's right. He censored everything that was pro-Jewish and took over the entire press. People should bear in mind that censorship could also affect them one day.  

—

**Alice Weidel:**  
Exactly. Incidentally, we are often portrayed as right-wing extremists, and are even seen as being close to National Socialism. That's completely absurd, because the National Socialists were socialists. They nationalized or massively controlled industry. Hitler was not a conservative, but an anti-capitalist socialist. We, on the other hand, are conservative-liberal, want denationalization and less bureaucracy.  

—

**Elon Musk:**  
Yes, Hitler had quite a few socialist elements, hence "National Socialism".  

—

**Alice Weidel:**  
Exactly. We stand for the opposite: we want people to become freer and more independent, so that they can build prosperity without being kept dependent on the state. We want independent, critically thinking citizens instead of yes-men. The government we have is a danger because it is allowing everything to escalate in the Ukraine crisis. They have no strategy, no red line and no capable military.  

—

**Elon Musk:**  
I think President Trump will resolve the conflict in Ukraine quickly if he gets back into office. The longer the war lasts, the higher the losses without anything changing. In the end, the relationship will become increasingly unfavorable for Ukraine.  

—

**Alice Weidel:**  
Exactly. Europe lacks any kind of diplomacy and military backing because we have been cutting the Bundeswehr to the bone for decades. We are totally dependent on the USA for security guarantees. But we don't actually want to be a "client state", as J. D. Vance said, but to act independently.  

—

**Elon Musk:**  
Yes, in my companies SpaceX and Tesla, for example, I don't want yes-men, but people who criticize me constructively. Physics does not forgive mistakes. If you do something wrong, rockets crash. That's why we see criticism as a gift.  

—

**Alice Weidel:**  
The same applies in politics. If mistakes are not addressed, this can lead to deadly results - for example in war.  

—

**Elon Musk:**  
That's right. By the way, what is your view of Israel?

—

**Alice Weidel:**  
It's very complicated. The more I look into it, the more complicated it seems. I don't see a simple solution at the moment. Of course we have to stand up for Israel's existence and defend Israel. Germany also has a responsibility towards Jewish life in this country. After the Hamas attack on October 7, many Jews fear anti-Semitic attacks, especially from radical Palestinians, left-wing extremists or Islamists. The media often say that only the AfD is anti-Semitic. The opposite is true: we are the ones who defend Jewish life, while other parties promote mass immigration from anti-Semitic cultures.

—

**Elon Musk:**  
I myself support the state of Israel, but I believe that we should always have empathy for innocent civilians. I have spoken to Benjamin Netanyahu. Firstly, Hamas needs to be crushed. Secondly, a different education system so that Palestinians don't learn to hate Israel from an early age. And thirdly, more economic prospects in the Palestinian territories. Failure to achieve this will only create new hatred.

After the First World War, the Treaty of Versailles was extremely unfair to Germany, which contributed to the Second World War. After the Second World War, however, America helped to rebuild Germany and Japan - and both are now US allies. There is an important lesson in this.

—

**Alice Weidel:**  
Yes, if you look at Gaza on the map, it is a very narrow area. There needs to be a realistic way to stabilize this region and ensure Israel's security at the same time.  

—

**Elon Musk:**  
You have to show strength, but at some point you also have to be able to forgive. "An eye for an eye only leads to everyone going blind.  

—

**Alice Weidel:**  
True words. As I said, the solution is unclear, but Israel must be defended.  

—

**Elon Musk:**  
Exactly. And with regard to Ukraine, the US leadership will hopefully put an end to it quickly. Hundreds of thousands have already died without any territorial gains.  

—

**Alice Weidel:**  
Yes, many people here are worried that the conflict will escalate and perhaps even go nuclear. Europe is helpless.  

—

**Elon Musk:**  
I also hope that strong US leadership under Trump will put an end to this.  

—

**Alice Weidel:**  
Many people hope so. May I ask you one more question? Many people are interested in SpaceX's Mars project. When do you think there will be a manned mission to Mars?

—

**Elon Musk:**  
At SpaceX, we ask ourselves: What will ensure the long-term survival of human consciousness? If we only live on one planet, at some point a global nuclear war or a large asteroid eruption could wipe us out. On Mars, we could create an independent, self-sustaining civilization. This increases the probability of humanity's survival enormously.  

In terms of time: Mars and Earth approach each other every two years. We need two or three favorable launch windows to test unmanned Starship landings. So perhaps it will be possible to send humans to Mars in four years' time. In the long term, it's not just about a few astronauts, but about building a colony. I estimate that it will take around a million tons of cargo to build a real, self-sustaining city on Mars.  

—

**Alice Weidel:**  
That is a tremendous vision. Do you believe in God or is it all coincidence?

—

**Elon Musk:**  
I'm open in that respect. Perhaps there is a creative entity - but I don't know if it observes our everyday actions. A lot of bad things happen unhindered. I try to constantly adapt my views to new findings.  

—

**Alice Weidel:**  
I'm not sure about that either, maybe it's called agnostic. But your vision is impressive.

—

**Elon Musk:**  
In a way, I'm following Douglas Adams' "The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy", according to which the Earth is a giant computer looking for the right question about "life, the universe and all the rest". The answer back then was "42". This means that having the answer is easy, but finding the real question is difficult. That's why I want to broaden humanity's awareness so that we can ask the right questions at some point.

—

**Alice Weidel:**  
Those are wonderful closing words. Thank you very much for the interview, Elon. It was really enlightening to hear your perspectives.

—

**Elon Musk:**  
Thank you, Alice. I hope the listeners find this conversation interesting. Thank you very much and goodbye!

—

**Alice Weidel:**  
Thank you very much, goodbye!